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> VIDEO PROOF TUNNELS WORK, CHANGING CURRENT WEATHER IN USA
CYCLONEKILLER
post Dec 10 2005, 12:18 AM
Post #1




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Pascal's and bernoulli's theory weaken Hurricanes.

A pretty good description of how, is in the Michael Oppenheimer email below . My biggest problem thus far is to get someone to do computer modeling of the idea to see the effects on the storm would be.In theory it works just as sure as airplanes fly. It uses the same principle but used in a different way.


Could be. Needs detailed modeling.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
From: Pat McNulty [mailto:stackgenerator@cableone.net]=20
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 10:23 PM
To: 'Michael Oppenheimer'
Subject: RE: Bernoulli's equation used to modify hurricanes and tornado's


Perhaps, I will contact Kerry Emanuel. Yea, everybody I have talked to about the idea seems to be afraid of what it may do to the environment. To me i t sounds like it would prevent further global warming for awhile since the by product electrical power is so clean. I figure if it can cool the Ocean to a temperature of 75 degrees well below the temperature required for Cyclogenisis and above 70 degrees the temperature the water is during winter then no harm to sea life would occur. Also the tunnels can be turned back off after the storm passes and water is then shunted to the surface again for electrical generation. The tunnels would make a good habitat for sea life as do oil rigs in the Gulf. There would have to be a restriction zone so ships could not enter the area and hit them. I figured after five years they would pay for themselves with the power they produce.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

From: Michael Oppenheimer [mailto:omichael@Princeton.EDU]
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 4:40 AM
To: Pat McNulty
Subject: RE: Bernoulli's equation used to modify hurricanes and tornados's



Sounds plausible. Questions I would ask include the cost of construction, cost of maintaining the system, side effects to the local marine environment. Whether it actually would work ought to be tested with some modeling. You could contact Kerry Emanuel at MIT to see what he thinks of the possibility of modeling it to see if it actually works as envisioned.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

From: Pat McNulty [mailto:stackgenerator@cableone.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 1:19 AM
To: 'Michael Oppenheimer'
Subject: RE: Bernoulli's equation used to modify hurricanes and tornados's



Here is how it will work. Anchor a large tunnel to the sea floor like a buoy but in several locations around the tunnel to hold it fast to the sea bed.
Position it to where one open end opposes the current at depth where the cool water is and the other open end at the surface faces away from the current. What happens is a difference in pressure is created at both ends and when a pressure difference is created flow occurs. That is the beauty of Bernoulli's principle. Cool water is bought up from below thus mixing with the warm water at the surface. The tunnel is neutrally buoyant with the top end just under the surface. Remember it can only work where there is a current. No current, no difference in pressure. Also, enough electricity can be generated for millions of people in Florida.

With the use of both of these principles combined no pumps are needed since the water will flow up the tunnel naturally. They can also be placed in the Yucatan and Caribbean currents thus cooling the Gulf of Mexico via the loop current thus saving the Gulf States, if placed SW of Key West They will save the whole East coast Of North America. The SSTs can be regulated to 70 to 80 degrees by the addition of a gate on the discharge end of the tunnel that regulates the flow of cool water flowing from them.

The idea does not eliminate the hurricanes it modifies them to a much weaker state no more than a catagory one by regulating the SSTs. The transfer of heat to the mid latitudes still occurs. The ocean temperature is regulated between 70 and 75 degrees and therefore as the storm crosses the cooler water it just weakens but it is not eliminated. BTW during the winter the temperature of the gulf is below 70 degrees so this should not harm sea life.
tornado's may not even form in the mid west because of the cooler temperatures in the Gulf thus cooling the warm air migrating to the North out of the Gulf Of Mexico. Since the air is cooler not as much lift is created in the atmosphere for tornados to form.

Pascal's principle:
F1 is the force of the gulf stream exerts on the mouth of the tunnel at depth.

http://www.scientia.org/cadonline/Physics/fluids/pascal.ASP

Bernoulli's principle:
A negative pressure is created when the gulf stream rushs pass the exit of the tunnel near the surface.

http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node68.html

All I did was combine both principles together to make the thing work with the tunnel. Any thoughts?



Thanks,

Pat McNulty






---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

From: Michael Oppenheimer [mailto:omichael@Princeton.EDU]
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:52 PM
To: Pat McNulty
Subject: RE: Bernoulli's equation used to modify hurricanes and tornados's



Interesting idea. Let me think about it some more. Generally, I'm skeptical of geo-engineering but maybe you've got something here.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

From: Pat McNulty [mailto:stackgenerator@cableone.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:56 PM
To: omichael@Princeton.EDU
Subject: Bernoulli's equation used to modify hurricanes and tornados's



Michael,

I have two neat ideas to modify hurricanes that will work physically. Bernoulli's Principle and underwater tunnels can weaken hurricanes just as the principle works on an airplanes wing creating lift. It works for fluids and gasses. They can create upwelling in the path of a storm thus weaken it. They can only work where a current exists such as the Gulf stream current or the Caribbean and Yucatan currents. The current that runs through the tunnels can be turned on or off and can restore proper temperatures to the oceans sea surface temperatures thus regulating them.

If placed in the proper locations these tunnels would reduce a hurricane or tornado's impact. It may even prevent a tornado from forming at all. These tunnels by product can produce enough electricity for the world without warming the planet. Wow imagine the effects when a billion more people buy cars and get electricity in just 15 years in China. Any thoughts??

This next email is from Hugh Willoughby.

http://www.ihc.fiu.edu/people/bios/willoughby.htm

As I wrote earlier, the loop current is hundreds of kilometers across and its position varies greatly from year to year. What makes the scoops not completely nuts as a proposal is the narrowness and fixed position of the Gulf Stream in the Straits and off Florida's SE coast. In terms of climatology, Greater Miami is the most vulnerable major city in the US. Only Miami has the configuration of a deep "western boundary" current directly offshore. Thus this scheme, if it proves feasible, would work only for Miami and only for Andrew-like storms. The city would remain vulnerable to late season storms, which approach from the SW, like WILMA

hew

From: "Pat McNulty" <stackgenerator@cableone.net>
Date: 2005/10/23 Sun AM 12:15:36 EDT
To: <willough@fiu.edu>
Subject: RE: Scoops( Under water Tunnels) Isn't there
also a loop current in the central gulf? If so it may prevent one from
becoming organized and prevent rapid development thus the impact would
be less at landfall. Hopefully, ssts have been cooled by the other
storms this year. However, any big city that can be protected should be
protected if such technology exists. It is just going to get worse if
we just sit on our hands. I predict storms getting much worse than
they are now.


From: willough@fiu.edu [mailto:willough@fiu.edu]
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 6:13 PM
To: Pat McNulty
Subject: Re: Scoops( Under water Tunnels)
Hugh,
I bet those tunnels are cost effective now???? ANY THOUGHTS?
Pat McNulty


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Playa21
post Dec 10 2005, 01:57 PM
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Well, the recent fluctuations in Hurricane intensity and amount are related to a NATURAL and VITAL cycle. Besides, hurricanes are one of the major factors in transporting heat throughout the biosphere.

Deaths are not to blame on hurricanes, it is the peoples' faults. They know WELL in advance when a hurricane will hit, and it's their fault if they refuse to leave.

Also, this would disrupt migration patterns of sea life, which may cause more species to become endangered/extinct.

Not to mention, who would fund this momentous task?

And if you stop the current, we are sent into an ice age.

Don't tempt nature.
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Paul Cowan
post Dec 10 2005, 02:23 PM
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This fellow has posted these type theories in here before. No matter how much logic and fact you throw at him , he rejects it. If you respond to him..you are just wasting your time.

We end up with a long winded thread of off topic arguments that solve nothing.


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CYCLONEKILLER
post Dec 10 2005, 08:47 PM
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"
(Playa21)
Well, the recent fluctuations in Hurricane intensity and amount are related to a NATURAL and VITAL cycle. Besides, hurricanes are one of the major factors in transporting heat throughout the biosphere."

If that is the case that it is natural and not man made then why is our government studing this?

http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~tk/glob_warm_hurr.html


"Deaths are not to blame on hurricanes, it is the peoples' faults. They know WELL in advance when a hurricane will hit, and it's their fault if they refuse to leave."

So why do they run statistics on hurricane related deaths? What about the damage hurricanes do to the environment?

"Also, this would disrupt migration patterns of sea life, which may cause more species to become endangered/extinct."

Negative the temperature is still 5 degrees above winter time SSTs and 5 degrees below 80 degrees, the temperature needed for cyclogenisis.

"Not to mention, who would fund this momentous task?"

10 billion is small when compared to the damage of just one hurricane and the project will pay foritself over five years by generating enough power for 22 million people.

"And if you stop the current, we are sent into an ice age."

The current never stops through the tunnel. The cool water is just bought up to the surface where it mixes with the warm water thus cooling it to 75 degrees and then falls back down. The horizontal flow around the tunnel is proportional to the vertical rise of the water in the tunnel.

"Don't tempt nature.
"

Isn't that what we are doing with greenhouse gasses?


--------------------
Genesis 2

'Thus the heavens and Earth were finished and all the host of them"

Psalms 33.6
By the LORD'S word the heavens were made; by the breath of his mouth all their host.
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CYCLONEKILLER
post Dec 10 2005, 08:48 PM
Post #5




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"
(Playa21)
Well, the recent fluctuations in Hurricane intensity and amount are related to a NATURAL and VITAL cycle. Besides, hurricanes are one of the major factors in transporting heat throughout the biosphere."

If that is the case that it is natural and not man made then why is our government studing this?

http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~tk/glob_warm_hurr.html


"Deaths are not to blame on hurricanes, it is the peoples' faults. They know WELL in advance when a hurricane will hit, and it's their fault if they refuse to leave."

So why do they run statistics on hurricane related deaths? What about the damage hurricanes do to the environment?

"Also, this would disrupt migration patterns of sea life, which may cause more species to become endangered/extinct."

Negative the temperature is still 5 degrees above winter time SSTs and 5 degrees below 80 degrees, the temperature needed for cyclogenisis.

"Not to mention, who would fund this momentous task?"

10 billion is small when compared to the damage of just one hurricane and the project will pay foritself over five years by generating enough power for 22 million people.

"And if you stop the current, we are sent into an ice age."

The current never stops through the tunnel. The cool water is just bought up to the surface where it mixes with the warm water thus cooling it to 75 degrees and then falls back down. The horizontal flow around the tunnel is proportional to the vertical rise of the water in the tunnel.

"Don't tempt nature.
"

Isn't that what we are doing with greenhouse gasses?


--------------------
Genesis 2

'Thus the heavens and Earth were finished and all the host of them"

Psalms 33.6
By the LORD'S word the heavens were made; by the breath of his mouth all their host.
Go to the top of the page
 
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Playa21
post Dec 11 2005, 02:28 AM
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It's not exactly on purpose that we are doing it, but there are already natural greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, without them we would be at least 30 degrees cooler, but most likely even more.

And we're trying to cut down. Global warming is a naturally occuring cycle, another reason for the increase in tropical weather.
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CYCLONEKILLER
post Dec 11 2005, 06:09 AM
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(Playa21)
It's not exactly on purpose that we are doing it, but there are already natural greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, without them we would be at least 30 degrees cooler, but most likely even more.

And we're trying to cut down. Global warming is a naturally occuring cycle, another reason for the increase in tropical weather.


Correct but the man induced greenhouse gasses are not natural. That is the problem.


--------------------
Genesis 2

'Thus the heavens and Earth were finished and all the host of them"

Psalms 33.6
By the LORD'S word the heavens were made; by the breath of his mouth all their host.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CYCLONEKILLER
post Dec 23 2005, 11:29 AM
Post #8




Rank: Tornado
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Group: Founding Member
Posts: 217
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From: Alabama
Member No.: 1,311





From: Kerry Emanuel [mailto:emanuel@texmex.mit.edu]
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 6:26 AM
To: Pat McNulty
Subject: RE: Pascal's and Bernoulli's principle weakens hurricanes



Pat: I have not had time to run calculations on your idea, but I do

not see an obvious reason why it might not work. The technical issue

would be with the volume of water required. Since you are effectively

mixing heat in ocean columns, you would be warming water at depth in

proportion to the surface cooling, and one should explore the

consequences of this.





As you may imagine, this past season's storms have renewed interest

in hurricane modification and quite a few proposals are being

fielded. I am working with some other faculty at MIT to initiate a

funding program for such proposals as yours; if we succeed I will let

you know and there would then be a mechanism for you to get funding

to work on this.



Yours, Kerry





At 01:36 PM 12/13/2005, you wrote:

>Kerry,

> This idea of mine keeps coming back to you. What do you suggest I do?

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Phil Klotzbach [mailto:philk@atmos.colostate.edu]

>Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:18 AM

>To: Pat McNulty

>Subject: Re: Pascal's and Bernoulli's principle weakens hurricanes

>

>Dear Pat,

>

>I would suggest contacting Kerry Emanuel at MIT:

>

>emanuel@texmex.mit.edu

>

>He is a brilliant dynamicist. If he cannot help you, he can probably point

>you in the right direction.

>

>Phil

>

>----------------------------------------------------

>Phil Klotzbach

>Research Associate

>Department of Atmospheric Science

>Colorado State University

>philk@atmos.colostate.edu

>Phone: (970) 491-8605

>-----------------------------------------------------

>----- Original Message -----

>From: "Pat McNulty" <stackgenerator@cableone.net>

>To: "'Phil Klotzbach'" <philk@atmos.colostate.edu>

>Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 11:03 AM

>Subject: RE: Pascal's and Bernoulli's principle weakens hurricanes

>

>

> > Who might those persons be?

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Phil Klotzbach [mailto:philk@atmos.colostate.edu]

> > Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:00 AM

> > To: Pat McNulty

> > Subject: Re: Pascal's and Bernoulli's principle weakens hurricanes

> >

> > Dear Pat,

> >

> > A couple of points:

> >

> > 1) When you submit a paper to a scientific journal, you don't cite

> > personal

> > references

> >

> > 2) I don't think I'm really the right person for you to be talking with,

> > since if you want constructive feedback, you should talk to someone who

> > has

> > a better dynamical view of hurricane genesis and intensification than I

> > do.

> > I mostly work with statistical prediction of tropical cyclones.

> >

> > Good luck with your idea.

> >

> > Phil

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------

> > Phil Klotzbach

> > Research Associate

> > Department of Atmospheric Science

> > Colorado State University

> > philk@atmos.colostate.edu

> > Phone: (970) 491-8605

> > -----------------------------------------------------

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "Pat McNulty" <stackgenerator@cableone.net>

> > To: "'Phil Klotzbach'" <philk@atmos.colostate.edu>

> > Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:01 AM

> > Subject: RE: Pascal's and Bernoulli's principle weakens hurricanes

> >

> >

> >> Would you like to see results of computer modeling of the idea?

> >>

> >> -----Original Message-----

> >> From: Phil Klotzbach [mailto:philk@atmos.colostate.edu]

> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:22 AM

> >> To: Pat McNulty

> >> Subject: Re: Pascal's and Bernoulli's principle weakens hurricanes

> >>

> >> If you write up your idea and explain physically why it should work, they

> >> may publish it. We've had some papers rejected from both Science and

> >> Nature

> >>

> >> before, so it's no slam-dunk. But, if you want to see your idea go

> >> forward,

> >>

> >> it's worth a shot. That's about all the advice I have.

> >>

> >> Phil

> >>

> >> ----------------------------------------------------

> >> Phil Klotzbach

> >> Research Associate

> >> Department of Atmospheric Science

> >> Colorado State University

> >> philk@atmos.colostate.edu

> >> Phone: (970) 491-8605

> >> -----------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >>

> >

> >



______________________________________________



Kerry A. Emanuel Professor of Meteorology

Rm. 54-1620, MIT Phone: (617) 253-2462

77 Mass. Ave. Fax: (617) 324-0308

Cambridge, MA 02139 Email:

<mailto:emanuel@texmex.mit.edu>emanuel@texmex.mit.edu

Web:

<http://wind.mit.edu/~emanuel/home.html>http://wind.mit.edu/~emanuel/home.html






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pat McNulty [mailto:stackgenerator@cableone.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 12:13 PM
To: 'Cantore, Jim'
Cc: 'sabrams@weather.com'; 'mbettes@weather.com'; 'kcass@weather.com'; 'pgoodloe@weather.com'; 'bkeneely@weather.com'; 'jlopez@weather.com'; 'mseese@weather.com'; 'mseidel@weather.com'; 'asteele@weather.com'; 'rban@weather.com'; 'dwilson@weather.com'; 'slyons@weather.com'; 'max.mayfield@noaa.gov.'; 'Erica Rule'
Subject: RE: Pascal's and Bernoulli's theory weakens hurricanes








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pat McNulty [mailto:stackgenerator@cableone.net]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 7:38 PM
To: 'jcantore@weather.com'
Cc: 'sabrams@weather.com'; 'mbettes@weather.com'; 'kcass@weather.com'; 'pgoodloe@weather.com'; 'bkeneely@weather.com'; 'jlopez@weather.com'; 'mseese@weather.com'; 'mseidel@weather.com'; 'asteele@weather.com'; 'htesh@weather.com'; 'rban@weather.com'; 'dwilson@weather.com'
Subject: Pascal's and Bernoulli's theory weakens hurricanes



Hello Jim and all,





Pascal's and Bernoulli's theory weaken Hurricanes.

A pretty good description of how, is in the Michael Oppenheimer email below . My biggest problem thus far is to get someone to do computer modeling of the idea to see the effects on the storm would be. In theory it works just as sure as airplanes fly. It uses the same principle but used in a different way.


Could be. Needs detailed modeling.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
From: Pat McNulty [mailto:stackgenerator@cableone.net]=20
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 10:23 PM
To: 'Michael Oppenheimer'
Subject: RE: Bernoulli's equation used to modify hurricanes and tornado's


Perhaps, I will contact Kerry Emanuel. Yea, everybody I have talked to about the idea seems to be afraid of what it may do to the environment. To me i t sounds like it would prevent further global warming for awhile since the by product electrical power is so clean. I figure if it can cool the Ocean to a temperature of 75 degrees well below the temperature required for Cyclogenisis and above 70 degrees the temperature the water is during winter then no harm to sea life would occur. Also the tunnels can be turned back off after the storm passes and water is then shunted to the surface again for electrical generation. The tunnels would make a good habitat for sea life as do oil rigs in the Gulf. There would have to be a restriction zone so ships could not enter the area and hit them. I figured after five years they would pay for themselves with the power they produce.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

From: Michael Oppenheimer [mailtomichael@Princeton.EDU]
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 4:40 AM
To: Pat McNulty
Subject: RE: Bernoulli's equation used to modify hurricanes and tornados's



Sounds plausible. Questions I would ask include the cost of construction, cost of maintaining the system, side effects to the local marine environment. Whether it actually would work ought to be tested with some modeling. You could contact Kerry Emanuel at MIT to see what he thinks of the possibility of modeling it to see if it actually works as envisioned.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

From: Pat McNulty [mailto:stackgenerator@cableone.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 1:19 AM
To: 'Michael Oppenheimer'
Subject: RE: Bernoulli's equation used to modify hurricanes and tornados's



Here is how it will work. Anchor a large tunnel to the sea floor like a buoy but in several locations around the tunnel to hold it fast to the sea bed.
Position it to where one open end opposes the current at depth where the cool water is and the other open end at the surface faces away from the current. What happens is a difference in pressure is created at both ends and when a pressure difference is created flow occurs. That is the beauty of Bernoulli's principle. Cool water is bought up from below thus mixing with the warm water at the surface. The tunnel is neutrally buoyant with the top end just under the surface. Remember it can only work where there is a current. No current, no difference in pressure. Also, enough electricity can be generated for millions of people in Florida.

With the use of both of these principles combined no pumps are needed since the water will flow up the tunnel naturally. They can also be placed in the Yucatan and Caribbean currents thus cooling the Gulf of Mexico via the loop current thus saving the Gulf States, if placed SW of Key West They will save the whole East coast Of North America. The SSTs can be regulated to 70 to 80 degrees by the addition of a gate on the discharge end of the tunnel that regulates the flow of cool water flowing from them.

The idea does not eliminate the hurricanes it modifies them to a much weaker state no more than a catagory one by regulating the SSTs. The transfer of heat to the mid latitudes still occurs. The ocean temperature is regulated between 70 and 75 degrees and therefore as the storm crosses the cooler water it just weakens but it is not eliminated. BTW during the winter the temperature of the gulf is below 70 degrees so this should not harm sea life.
tornado's may not even form in the mid west because of the cooler temperatures in the Gulf thus cooling the warm air migrating to the North out of the Gulf Of Mexico. Since the air is cooler not as much lift is created in the atmosphere for tornados to form.

Pascal's principle:
F1 is the force of the gulf stream exerts on the mouth of the tunnel at depth.

http://www.scientia.org/cadonline/P...uids/pascal.ASP

Bernoulli's principle:
A negative pressure is created when the gulf stream rushs pass the exit of the tunnel near the surface.

http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node68.html

All I did was combine both principles together to make the thing work with the tunnel. Any thoughts?



Thanks,

Pat McNulty






---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

From: Michael Oppenheimer [mailtomichael@Princeton.EDU]
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:52 PM
To: Pat McNulty
Subject: RE: Bernoulli's equation used to modify hurricanes and tornados's



Interesting idea. Let me think about it some more. Generally, I'm skeptical of geo-engineering but maybe you've got something here.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

From: Pat McNulty [mailto:stackgenerator@cableone.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:56 PM
To: omichael@Princeton.EDU
Subject: Bernoulli's equation used to modify hurricanes and tornados's



Michael,

I have two neat ideas to modify hurricanes that will work physically. Bernoulli's Principle and underwater tunnels can weaken hurricanes just as the principle works on an airplanes wing creating lift. It works for fluids and gasses. They can create upwelling in the path of a storm thus weaken it. They can only work where a current exists such as the Gulf stream current or the Caribbean and Yucatan currents. The current that runs through the tunnels can be turned on or off and can restore proper temperatures to the oceans sea surface temperatures thus regulating them.

If placed in the proper locations these tunnels would reduce a hurricane or tornado's impact. It may even prevent a tornado from forming at all. These tunnels by product can produce enough electricity for the world without warming the planet. Wow imagine the effects when a billion more people buy cars and get electricity in just 15 years in China. Any thoughts??

This next email is from Hugh Willoughby.

http://www.ihc.fiu.edu/people/bios/willoughby.htm

As I wrote earlier, the loop current is hundreds of kilometers across and its position varies greatly from year to year. What makes the scoops not completely nuts as a proposal is the narrowness and fixed position of the Gulf Stream in the Straits and off Florida's SE coast. In terms of climatology, Greater Miami is the most vulnerable major city in the US. Only Miami has the configuration of a deep "western boundary" current directly offshore. Thus this scheme, if it proves feasible, would work only for Miami and only for Andrew-like storms. The city would remain vulnerable to late season storms, which approach from the SW, like WILMA

hew

From: "Pat McNulty"
Date: 2005/10/23 Sun AM 12:15:36 EDT
To:
Subject: RE: Scoops( Under water Tunnels) Isn't there
also a loop current in the central gulf? If so it may prevent one from
becoming organized and prevent rapid development thus the impact would
be less at landfall. Hopefully, ssts have been cooled by the other
storms this year. However, any big city that can be protected should be
protected if such technology exists. It is just going to get worse if
we just sit on our hands. I predict storms getting much worse than
they are now.


From: willough@fiu.edu [mailto:willough@fiu.edu]
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 6:13 PM
To: Pat McNulty
Subject: Re: Scoops( Under water Tunnels)
Hugh,
I bet those tunnels are cost effective now???? ANY THOUGHTS?
Pat McNulty


--------------------
Genesis 2

'Thus the heavens and Earth were finished and all the host of them"

Psalms 33.6
By the LORD'S word the heavens were made; by the breath of his mouth all their host.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cyclonebuster
post Jul 9 2009, 03:09 PM
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Visual proof that the tunnels will work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fh_RXiEinU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6O6UHpKT_E
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WeatherMatrix
post Jul 10 2009, 02:09 PM
Post #10




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QUOTE(cyclonebuster @ Jul 9 2009, 04:09 PM) *


Can you explain the similarities & differences between your idea and the recent patent filed by Microsoft?


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cyclonebuster
post Jul 11 2009, 01:12 PM
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QUOTE(WeatherMatrix @ Jul 10 2009, 03:09 PM) *
Can you explain the similarities & differences between your idea and the recent patent filed by Microsoft?


Great question.
Sure: It looks like wave action breaking over the walls of Bills idea is the primary force to send warm water downwards to mix with cool water in the thermocline. As the water rises inside the walls from the waves breaking over them the level inside rises thus pushing more warm water downwards.

My idea is different than Bills:
Think of a kite flying in the air where you are the anchor on the ground holding it in the air in one place as the wind creates lift as it passes the kites surfaces thus raising the kite in the air.

The tunnel idea is very similar to the kite except it is under water and anchored to the sea floor and is made neutrally bouyant with air tanks very much like Bills idea except Bills idea is not anchored to the sea floor. The tunnel is completly submerged as in the video. We are just holding it there from above in one spot to simulate it being anchored to the creek bottom below it. If you notice in the video you can see the current is flowing past the whole submerged structure as the foam floats by at about 1/4 mph where we estimated it at about 4 inches per/sec.. What happens is, even at these very slow velocites since the tunnel is completly submerged a pressure differential across the whole structure is created as the water bypasses the whole tunnel structure.

A SHUNT valve is installed to divert water through the top or through the bottom and is not shown in the video. Its location is where the two pipes intersect one another.For the purpose of this test I just used pipe caps to divert the flow from top to bottom.

COOLING PHASE: Top inlet to tunnel capped off!
Down below at the tunnel inlet a force is created from the current hitting it. This I call F1 or force one. At the top outlet of the tunnel just below the surface the current rushes past the opening creating a more negative pressure. This I call F2 or force2. Since F1 is greater than F2 as Pascal states in his theory of hydraulics flow occurs. In other words in order to have flow you must have pressure differential. If there was no flow you would have no pressure differential.
The friction in the pipe is almost zero because of the large crossection. As crossection increases friction decreases.

NON-COOLING PHASE: Bottom inlet to tunnel capped off.

Same thing happens here except the cool water from below is not used and just the warm water flows through the pipe at the surface where it also flows through the venturi to make electrical power. Both phases cooling and non cooling you get hydroelectrical power thus you have the ability to get power 24/7/365.

VENTURI:
Another BIG difference is the venturi: I also installed a venturi at the top opening where the exit is where the red tape is. It was necked down from a 2 inch pipe inside diameter to a venturi opening of 1 and 5/16 inches. This also increases the friction which should slow the overall flow down in the system.However, it was not enough to stop the flow as it is clearly visible in the video that the red food coloring went in the BOTTOM and came out the TOP even at such low flow velocities in the creek.. Place a turbine where the venturi is in a 5 or 6 mph current such as the gulfstream and you will have a huge energy source to make pure clean hydroelectrical power.The velocity increases through this more narrow section of the venturi and that is where the tubine should be placed.

What happens in COOLING PHASE at tunnel exit:

As the cooler waters exit the tunnel at the surface the warm water outside the tunnel is flowing past it at a faster velocity. The cool water falls on top of the warmer water below it once it has exited the tunnel thus mixing occurs. Turbulance and wave breaking at the surface will also help in the mixing process. This now cooler 70-75 degree water at the surface is carried downstream in the gulfstream current about 120 miles per day so in just five days of operation you can cover an area of more than 600 miles long X 40 miles wide protecting Keywest to North Carolina from any hurricane that passes over the cooler waters. Any hurricane passing this now cooler water is sure to weaken. If you place them in the "Yucatan Current" you can cool the loop current and thus protect the Gulf States.

Computer modeling of them should tell us when and how long to keep them in cooling phase. If we left them on for extended periods we could restore the Arctic Ice and Glaciers also.

This is a more controlled cooling than Bills as he can not control wave height and therefore how much cooling. With the tunnels you can control how much cooling you want to nearest 1/10 of a degree.

This post has been edited by cyclonebuster: Jul 11 2009, 02:09 PM
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cyclonebuster
post Jul 13 2009, 11:07 PM
Post #12




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QUOTE(cyclonebuster @ Jul 11 2009, 02:12 PM) *
Great question.
Sure: It looks like wave action breaking over the walls of Bills idea is the primary force to send warm water downwards to mix with cool water in the thermocline. As the water rises inside the walls from the waves breaking over them the level inside rises thus pushing more warm water downwards.

My idea is different than Bills:
Think of a kite flying in the air where you are the anchor on the ground holding it in the air in one place as the wind creates lift as it passes the kites surfaces thus raising the kite in the air.

The tunnel idea is very similar to the kite except it is under water and anchored to the sea floor and is made neutrally bouyant with air tanks very much like Bills idea except Bills idea is not anchored to the sea floor. The tunnel is completly submerged as in the video. We are just holding it there from above in one spot to simulate it being anchored to the creek bottom below it. If you notice in the video you can see the current is flowing past the whole submerged structure as the foam floats by at about 1/4 mph where we estimated it at about 4 inches per/sec.. What happens is, even at these very slow velocites since the tunnel is completly submerged a pressure differential across the whole structure is created as the water bypasses the whole tunnel structure.

A SHUNT valve is installed to divert water through the top or through the bottom and is not shown in the video. Its location is where the two pipes intersect one another.For the purpose of this test I just used pipe caps to divert the flow from top to bottom.

COOLING PHASE: Top inlet to tunnel capped off!
Down below at the tunnel inlet a force is created from the current hitting it. This I call F1 or force one. At the top outlet of the tunnel just below the surface the current rushes past the opening creating a more negative pressure. This I call F2 or force2. Since F1 is greater than F2 as Pascal states in his theory of hydraulics flow occurs. In other words in order to have flow you must have pressure differential. If there was no flow you would have no pressure differential.
The friction in the pipe is almost zero because of the large crossection. As crossection increases friction decreases.

NON-COOLING PHASE: Bottom inlet to tunnel capped off.

Same thing happens here except the cool water from below is not used and just the warm water flows through the pipe at the surface where it also flows through the venturi to make electrical power. Both phases cooling and non cooling you get hydroelectrical power thus you have the ability to get power 24/7/365.

VENTURI:
Another BIG difference is the venturi: I also installed a venturi at the top opening where the exit is where the red tape is. It was necked down from a 2 inch pipe inside diameter to a venturi opening of 1 and 5/16 inches. This also increases the friction which should slow the overall flow down in the system.However, it was not enough to stop the flow as it is clearly visible in the video that the red food coloring went in the BOTTOM and came out the TOP even at such low flow velocities in the creek.. Place a turbine where the venturi is in a 5 or 6 mph current such as the gulfstream and you will have a huge energy source to make pure clean hydroelectrical power.The velocity increases through this more narrow section of the venturi and that is where the tubine should be placed.

What happens in COOLING PHASE at tunnel exit:

As the cooler waters exit the tunnel at the surface the warm water outside the tunnel is flowing past it at a faster velocity. The cool water falls on top of the warmer water below it once it has exited the tunnel thus mixing occurs. Turbulance and wave breaking at the surface will also help in the mixing process. This now cooler 70-75 degree water at the surface is carried downstream in the gulfstream current about 120 miles per day so in just five days of operation you can cover an area of more than 600 miles long X 40 miles wide protecting Keywest to North Carolina from any hurricane that passes over the cooler waters. Any hurricane passing this now cooler water is sure to weaken. If you place them in the "Yucatan Current" you can cool the loop current and thus protect the Gulf States.

Computer modeling of them should tell us when and how long to keep them in cooling phase. If we left them on for extended periods we could restore the Arctic Ice and Glaciers also.

This is a more controlled cooling than Bills as he can not control wave height and therefore how much cooling. With the tunnels you can control how much cooling you want to nearest 1/10 of a degree.



5,687 views now and none of you guys get this? Even the video can't convince you? LOL!!

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