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> Government shutdown, Should the Government be shutdown
jacksonville
post Apr 9 2011, 12:36 AM
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Should the Government be shut down in order to force spending cuts? No esential services would be stopped. my opinion is yes, this reckless spending has to stop. Most of you people here are young and you are going to pay for all this for many years to come.

This post has been edited by jacksonville: Apr 9 2011, 12:43 AM
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Cracker
post Apr 9 2011, 01:58 AM
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QUOTE(jacksonville @ Apr 9 2011, 01:36 AM) *
Should the Government be shut down in order to force spending cuts? No esential services would be stopped. my opinion is yes, this reckless spending has to stop. Most of you people here are young and you are going to pay for all this for many years to come.

I am paying now for many years to come..... sad.gif


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wxdude1964
post Apr 9 2011, 07:15 AM
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QUOTE(Cracker @ Apr 9 2011, 02:58 AM) *
I am paying now for many years to come..... sad.gif



ditto sad.gif


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wingsovernc
post Apr 9 2011, 09:43 AM
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QUOTE(wxdude1964 @ Apr 9 2011, 08:15 AM) *
ditto sad.gif


Is your posting time wrong here? blink.gif
You were in the games a few minutes before this... huh.gif

This post has been edited by wingsovernc: Apr 9 2011, 09:47 AM


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raughammer
post Apr 9 2011, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE(jacksonville @ Apr 9 2011, 12:36 AM) *
Should the Government be shut down in order to force spending cuts? No esential services would be stopped. my opinion is yes, this reckless spending has to stop. Most of you people here are young and you are going to pay for all this for many years to come.


Bummer. I was kinda rooting for a shut-down.
But the Right accomplished a lot with this first battle of the budgets. They high lighted the Lefts failure to pass a budget last September when the left controlled both houses of congress and the presidency and they could have passed it with only token Republican resistance. Yet the Right was able to pass LAST YEARS budget with the left kicking and screaming. After the Right proposed last years budget this year the the left complained and stated 30 billion in cuts was draconian and extreme and a non starter and came back with a ZERO dollar in cuts counter offer.
Yet after all was said and done the left ended up conceding not just 30 billion in cuts but about 38 billion.
The best thing that was accomplished with all the brouhaha of the last few days was the flame has been lit, the path has been laid for more cuts in the future. The next big fight over raising the deficit ceiling will be a much larger fight with a lot more at stake. Look for the Right to wring even more cuts and concessions from the left. The left will fight it tooth and nail but in the end they will have to get in line.
Thats my thoughts on it.


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kab2791
post Apr 9 2011, 10:39 PM
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Great Input rolleyes.gif
QUOTE(Beck @ Apr 9 2011, 10:39 PM) *
Ah, Republicans.... *sigh*



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Beck
post Apr 9 2011, 10:49 PM
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QUOTE(kab2791 @ Apr 9 2011, 08:39 PM) *
Great Input rolleyes.gif

Then again, Dems aren't such hot stuff either...

A better choice of input would be this:

A question - what exactly does 'shutting down the government' entail? Do you lock down or restrict their budget? And if so, the goal is to relieve the country's debt (mainly to China), correct? Please correct/inform me. But do not be rude.


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QUOTE(wingsovernc @ Sep 13 2014, 04:20 PM) *
You're cute when you're whining Becky :)
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mmi16
post Apr 10 2011, 01:35 AM
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Cracker
post Apr 10 2011, 01:48 AM
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Can't check my facts here- but back in the begining, wasn't it written that the government couldn't be 3 million in the hole?
We sure have blown that one.


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Apologistnky
post Apr 10 2011, 02:34 AM
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We should not be surprised by any of this. After all, our government IS a reflection of us! We have abandoned so many of our principles, our morals, our basic common sense...all to the alter of a handful of social theorists who, via academia and the media, have convinced us that we should:
  • stop producing and become consumers only
  • cease to hold onto absolute truths and embrace relativism
  • abandon our Judeo-Christian heritage for a naturalist theory
  • view ourselves as gods in control of our own universe
  • bring about social reform/change at the point of a "gun."
IMHO, it would behoove us to stop feigning surprise and being all bent out of shape about this and do one of two things:




1. Accept blame for what has happened, ask for forgiveness, then take concrete steps to rectify the situation in a timely manner, OR...

2. Shut up, suck it up, shell it out!!

"We have met the enemy...and HE IS US!"



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Beck
post Apr 10 2011, 02:55 AM
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QUOTE(Apologistnky @ Apr 10 2011, 12:34 AM) *
We should not be surprised by any of this. After all, our government IS a reflection of us! We have abandoned so many of our principles, our morals, our basic common sense...all to the alter of a handful of social theorists who, via academia and the media, have convinced us that we should:
  • stop producing and become consumers only
  • cease to hold onto absolute truths and embrace relativism
  • abandon our Judeo-Christian heritage for a naturalist theory
  • view ourselves as gods in control of our own universe
  • bring about social reform/change at the point of a "gun."
IMHO, it would behoove us to stop feigning surprise and being all bent out of shape about this and do one of two things:
1. Accept blame for what has happened, ask for forgiveness, then take concrete steps to rectify the situation in a timely manner, OR...

2. Shut up, suck it up, shell it out!!

"We have met the enemy...and HE IS US!"


I'm agnostic, so I have a rather strong sense of naturalism in me.....but not to the point of non-theism. Religion and it's original forms & beliefs are far to inconsistent with itself and vaguely distorted in the past several thousand years that it has reached a state of vast humiliation (as with language itself). It no longer retains any of it's source - I've noticed how people increasingly keep tweaking their religious beliefs to suit their current modern lifestyles rather than what the religion originally intended for....


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QUOTE(wingsovernc @ Sep 13 2014, 04:20 PM) *
You're cute when you're whining Becky :)
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idecline
post Apr 10 2011, 03:10 AM
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QUOTE(Beck @ Apr 10 2011, 02:55 AM) *
I'm agnostic, so I have a rather strong sense of naturalism in me.....but not to the point of non-theism. Religion and it's original forms & beliefs are far to inconsistent with itself and vaguely distorted in the past several thousand years that it has reached a state of vast humiliation (as with language itself). It no longer retains any of it's source - I've noticed how people increasingly keep tweaking their religious beliefs to suit their current modern lifestyles rather than what the religion originally intended for....


Which purpose...controlling the masses...or seeking 'higher' understanding....the latter(ladder) got lost somewhere..

I guess the moral and spiritual breakdown of our country has not been cured by consumerism and entertainment.... dry.gif


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Beck
post Apr 10 2011, 03:22 AM
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QUOTE(idecline @ Apr 10 2011, 01:10 AM) *
Which purpose...controlling the masses...or seeking 'higher' understanding....the latter(ladder) got lost somewhere..

I guess the moral and spiritual breakdown of our country has not been cured by consumerism and entertainment.... dry.gif

I meant purpose as in the moral and spiritual ethics previously practiced there. People are most at-ease with what makes them feel most comfortable & secure; an answer to all their universal questions regarding origin and source.....I don't particularly criticize religion as it is the one thing keeping some individuals or groups sane, at their peace of mind....and has introduced incredible human endeavor, spiritual enlightenment potential and entire unique lifestyles. The other branch is when religion meets politics....uh-oh.


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QUOTE(wingsovernc @ Sep 13 2014, 04:20 PM) *
You're cute when you're whining Becky :)
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raughammer
post Apr 10 2011, 03:52 AM
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QUOTE(jacksonville @ Apr 9 2011, 12:36 AM) *
Should the Government be shut down in order to force spending cuts?

Yes, it has become evident that the only way to get spending under control is to use some kind of force such as a govt. shutdown as leverage. Otherwise things will continue as before and the can will continue to be kicked down the road.
QUOTE
No esential services would be stopped. my opinion is yes, this reckless spending has to stop.

For the same reasons and reasoning; I agree with you.

QUOTE
Most of you people here are young and you are going to pay for all this for many years to come.

Can you please explain the "this" you are speaking of? Do you mean the lavish govt. funded/tax payer supplied social services? The ballooning deficit? Or are you referring more specifically to the costs associated with the shut down?
I think you mean more of the former rather than latter.


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jacksonville
post Apr 10 2011, 04:08 AM
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QUOTE(raughammer @ Apr 10 2011, 04:52 AM) *
Yes, it has become evident that the only way to get spending under control is to use some kind of force such as a govt. shutdown as leverage. Otherwise things will continue as before and the can will continue to be kicked down the road.

For the same reasons and reasoning; I agree with you.
Can you please explain the "this" you are speaking of? Do you mean the lavish govt. funded/tax payer supplied social services? The ballooning deficit? Or are you referring more specifically to the costs associated with the shut down?
I think you mean more of the former rather than latter.

Raugh, I'm in complete agreement with you on this subject. Definately the former
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Apologistnky
post Apr 10 2011, 04:47 AM
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QUOTE(Beck @ Apr 10 2011, 02:55 AM) *
I'm agnostic, so I have a rather strong sense of naturalism in me.....but not to the point of non-theism. But doesn't naturalism,as I understand it, being based on Darwinianism, time+matter+chance,run in direct opposition to theism which (again) as I understand Christianity (not based on a denominational creed or theology), presupposed on humans (in this instance) being created in the image of God?


Religion and it's original forms & beliefs are far to inconsistent with itself and vaguely distorted in the past several thousand years that it has reached a state of vast humiliation (as with language itself).Would you be so kind as to give me some example of this in an e-mail?

It no longer retains any of it's source - I've noticed how people increasingly keep tweaking their religious beliefs to suit their current modern lifestyles I agree with this assessment of how denominations and individuals have distorted (my word) the Church (again not specific denomination...but the entire body as a whole)

rather than what the religion originally intended for....Are you referring to the church as depicted in the Book of Acts? or, to what 'religion' specifically?



QUOTE(idecline @ Apr 10 2011, 03:10 AM) *
Which purpose...controlling the masses...or seeking 'higher' understanding....the latter(ladder) got lost somewhere..

I guess the moral and spiritual breakdown of our country has not been cured by consumerism and entertainment.... dry.gif
I agree that this, along with other factors, has caused the breakdown that you refer to here. To me, it is scary the paralells I observe over past 100 yrs between the US and the former Roman and British Empires prior to their falls from prominence.



QUOTE(Beck @ Apr 10 2011, 03:22 AM) *
I meant purpose as in the moral and spiritual ethics previously practiced there. People are most at-ease with what makes them feel most comfortable & secure;Francis Schaefer once remarked something to the effect that when we place our own personal peace and security above that which we are given by God, then we are simply doing things our way and putting a "God Stamp of Approval" on it.

an answer to all their universal questions regarding origin and source.....I don't particularly criticize religion as it is the one thing keeping some individuals or groups sane, at their peace of mind....and has introduced incredible human endeavor, spiritual enlightenment potential and entire unique lifestyles.

The other branch is when religion meets politics....uh-oh. That's a theodacy and I agree that when you politicize religion, or religionize politics for that matter, you end up losing the religion to politics.


I know we're getting off subject here (perhaps another thread or some PM's are in order here), but the point I was trying to make with my original post was this:

As a result of the influences I mentioned, as well as others unnamed, our system of government is mirroring EXACTLY what we are doing as a nation-at-large, and individuals in particular...so we shouldn't be surprised at the results!! or the possible consequences!! IMHO of course.


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idecline
post Apr 10 2011, 05:11 AM
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QUOTE(Apologistnky @ Apr 10 2011, 02:34 AM) *
We should not be surprised by any of this. After all, our government IS a reflection of us! We have abandoned so many of our principles, our morals, our basic common sense...all to the alter of a handful of social theorists who, via academia and the media, have convinced us that we should:
  • stop producing and become consumers only
  • cease to hold onto absolute truths and embrace relativism
  • abandon our Judeo-Christian heritage for a naturalist theory
  • view ourselves as gods in control of our own universe
  • bring about social reform/change at the point of a "gun."
IMHO, it would behoove us to stop feigning surprise and being all bent out of shape about this and do one of two things:
1. Accept blame for what has happened, ask for forgiveness, then take concrete steps to rectify the situation in a timely manner, OR...

2. Shut up, suck it up, shell it out!!

"We have met the enemy...and HE IS US!"




QUOTE(Apologistnky @ Apr 10 2011, 04:47 AM) *
I know we're getting off subject here (perhaps another thread or some PM's are in order here), but the point I was trying to make with my original post was this:

As a result of the influences I mentioned, as well as others unnamed, our system of government is mirroring EXACTLY what we are doing as a nation-at-large, and individuals in particular...so we shouldn't be surprised at the results!! or the possible consequences!! IMHO of course.



"Let's All Play 'The Blame Game' " and Meanwhile....Back At The Ranch....

To paraphrase Apolo (with many pardons) :

We haven't met the enemy ....and he is US.....


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Perception is everything

"If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there". ~ Lewis Carroll


"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving" ~ Lao Tzu
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Apologistnky
post Apr 10 2011, 05:18 AM
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QUOTE(idecline @ Apr 10 2011, 05:11 AM) *
"Let's All Play 'The Blame Game' " and Meanwhile....Back At The Ranch....

To paraphrase Apolo (with many pardons) :

We haven't met the enemy ....and he is US.....


Well said...and with a LOT FEWER words I might add! laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Apologistnky: Apr 15 2011, 05:04 AM


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Maw
post Apr 14 2011, 08:00 AM
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Government shutdow... Makes me scratch my head.

I equate this to my company shutting down because my employees failed to do their jobs. Notwithstanding the fact that we are shutting down because the employees didn't do their jobs, I am still going to pay them.

Why would these Senators and Representatives still receive a paycheck when it is THEM that didn't get this balanced in time. If I'm their boss, I say THEY ARE ALL FIRED - everyone last stinkin one of them. They knew the deadline, but did not work diligently enough to get the job done. Now bandaids have only been put in place so a shutdown could be avoided.

Who here would be able to keep their job if they failed to do that in which they were hired? Can I see a show of hands????

As Apolo stated, we made this mess because of our morals.

Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?????? blink.gif


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wingsovernc
post Apr 15 2011, 07:21 AM
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QUOTE(Maw @ Apr 14 2011, 09:00 AM) *
Government shutdow... Makes me scratch my head.

I equate this to my company shutting down because my employees failed to do their jobs. Notwithstanding the fact that we are shutting down because the employees didn't do their jobs, I am still going to pay them.

Why would these Senators and Representatives still receive a paycheck when it is THEM that didn't get this balanced in time. If I'm their boss, I say THEY ARE ALL FIRED - everyone last stinkin one of them. They knew the deadline, but did not work diligently enough to get the job done. Now bandaids have only been put in place so a shutdown could be avoided.

Who here would be able to keep their job if they failed to do that in which they were hired? Can I see a show of hands????

As Apolo stated, we made this mess because of our morals.

Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?????? blink.gif


Because your Congressmen (and women) Maw, have made certain that their salaries, benefits,
vacations (at your expense), lavish pensions (after just 2 years of service no matter how often
they show up to vote on anything), and even their future raises are all tied up with a neat little
bow...that they've tied in one of those very complicated sailor knots that neither you nor I can
put a hand to! So they "politic" the rest of us all the way into bankruptsy at their leisure...and
we can only sit back and cry. I'd like to know how many answered "present" to the roll-call
the last time they voted in a raise for themselves...pretty near 100% would be my guess.


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